Madison, Jefferson, and the Separation of Church & State

Source:  Isebrand.com

I’m going to list page references in the book that you can use to help you in answering this question.  They go all the way back to chapter four:

pp 110-112 The congress under the Articles of Confederation include a couple of components that deal with this issue.  The first is at the top of the page and talks about moral education.  The second is a quote from the first article of the Northwest Ordinance.  It is important to note that this part of the Ordinance was modeled after the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom which was authored and introduced into the Virginia assembly by Thomas Jefferson.

Also in this passage you can see an excerpt of Madison’s Memorial and Remonstrance which was a response to a religious bill introduced by Patrick Henry.

p 121 On this page there is a quote from Article VI of the Constitution of the United States (this is not the Bill of Rights, but the actual Constitution itself). 

pp 129-130 This passage talks about Madison’s election to the VA ratification congress.  The Baptist pastor, Leland, mentioned here is the same pastor of the ‘mammoth cheese’ when Jefferson is elected president!  In this passage Bennett really tries to explain Madison’s belief about religious liberty. 

p 142 The first amendment of the Constitution (the Bill of Rights) written by Madison includes a reference to freedom of religion.

Now we are up to Chapter 6.

p 179 Here is John Leland again of the mammoth cheese. You need to consider what happened after he arrived to see Jefferson and pay attention to the foot notes in your text.  (You should always read your foot notes!!)

pp 179-180 The Danbury Baptists ask President Jefferson to declare a national day of fasting and prayer.  Consider Jefferson’s response and pay attention to the last sentence of the second paragraph.

Pp 180-181 What was Jefferson’s response to the Federalist’s attacks on Jefferson’s beliefs?  This is the quote from the letter to Dr. Bejamin Rush.

After you have considered all of this evidence and summarized it, ask yourself what kind of case Bennett is making and laying out regarding Jefferson’s intentions when he speaks and acts in favor of a separation between Church & State.  I think Bennett is expressing a particular point of view here and I’m asking you to consider if he is making a fair case, one that you can agree with or trust.

The Demise of the Federalist Party

To understand the Demise of the Federalist Party you need to make sure you understand how it was formed.  It was the very first American political party.  Prior political parties were actually English political parties – the Whigs and the Tories which originated during reformation era in England.  The Whigs wanted Parliament to have more power than the king, they were anti-Catholic and pro-Protestant, and called themselves the ‘Country’ party as opposed to the ‘Court’ party.  The Tories, the ‘Court’ party, were for the king and believed in his ‘Devine Right’ to rule.  They were in favor of the Church of England (the Anglican Church) and hated non-conformists all of which made the protestant Whigs think they were pro-Catholic.

While during the American Revolution I think that neither party was opposed to protestant ideas (I’m not certain of this however), the terms Whig and Tory were used to differentiate people who were for American Independence (Whigs) and people who were still loyal to the crown of England (Loyalists or Tories).

Most of the Tories fled to England or Canada or other places during the Revolution.  There was a large group who fled to Florida and later resettled in Georgia.  Some of them however stayed and suffered persecution and indignities during the war, had property ceased and confiscated, etc.  Since most of the Tory political leaders left, though, there was no longer a Tory political powerbase and because many of the Tories were wealthier citizens during Colonialism – merchants and the like, when they left it destroyed the hierarchy and class stratification that was very prominent during colonialism in New England. 

This removal of a previous power base allowed the rise of a new class of wealthy men and smaller merchants to grow in standing, but these men did not hold the same views of aristocracy and elitism as the loyalist Tories.  Their ideas were very ‘Republican’ meaning Democratic/Republican of the variety of Jefferson who saw their fellow men as equal.  Here’s an interesting quote from a rich patriot in Boston in 1779:  "fellows who would have cleaned my shoes five years ago, have amassed fortunes and are riding in chariots."

So at the end of the Revolution and the beginning of the United States there was really only one political power – the Whigs.  So how did the Federalist Party begin?  It was begun by Alexander Hamilton.  Remember that he was a member of Washington’s cabinet – he served as Washington’s Secretary of Treasury and Washington relied on his financial knowledge.  While serving under Washington Hamilton amassed a group of supporters for his fiscal ideas – remember that he urged that the Federal government assume the states Revolutionary War debts (which created our very first national debt) but he also had a plan for paying it off.  He also advocated for a National Bank, was in favor of tarriffs, and saw that we would need to have good relations with Brittain in order to survive.  In esssence they believed in a very strong, centralized Federal government that had powers above that of the states.  Do you remember Hamilton’s argument for ‘energy in the Executive’?  (This was the same argument that threatened to boil over during the writing of The Constitution, remember?  States Rights vs. Federal rights?  It was part of the reason why some states refused to ratify the constitution without a Bill of Rights.  Their ideas were laid out in detail in 'The Federalist Papers'.) 

That group of supporters that Hamilton gathered around him?  They were rich merchants and bankers and centered around larger cities and was much more prominent in New England.  John Adams allied himself with the Federalist party and was the only Federal U.S. President.  Washington was sympathetic to some of their ideas but never joined the party choosing to remain ‘independent’.  Jefferson’s followers, the ‘Jeffersonians’, came to be known as the ‘Republicans’ because they were opposed to mainly the fiscal policies of the Federalists.  Jefferson was vehemently opposed to the idea of a National Bank, and there seemed to be a sense of elitism associated with the Federalists that rankled more people than just Jefferson.  Remember that how Washington ‘held court’ while president had ranlked Jefferson and he made a pointed effort to put everyone on equal footing in the White House when he became president.  He called Hamilton and Adams and their supporters ‘Monocrats’ referring to monarchists.  (Remember the debaucle Adams had while VP over what to call president Washington?  I made up a little rhyme ‘too long gone and a royalist tone’ to describe Adams.  He had spent to much time in London and came back talking more like a Brit than a patriot!  Refer to the dinner conversation with Washington, Adams, Hamilton and Jeffeson on page 152 to see more of these ideas and how shocked Jeffeson was by them.

Jeffeson gave in to Hamilton though on this issue when he ‘log-rolled’ or voteswapped, exchaging support for Hamilton’s ideas and influencing is more southern power base to favor them in exchange fore buildig the capital on the Potomac (which put it between two slave states).  Hamilton’s Department of Treasury quickly became the largest portion of the federal governmet with close to 500 employees while all the others all together only had 22!  This idea of ‘big government’ and ‘small government’ is not a new disagreement!!   

All of this background brings you to the moment of the election of 1800 and the beginning of the demise of the Federalist party.  It began actually at the end of Chapter 5 (pp 171-176).  Here are some questions to ask yourself and help you answer this opportunity question:

            #1 Why/how did Adams lose this election?

            #2  Look at the election of 1802 on p 181.   What did they use in order to attack Jefferson and gain votes in the House during that election?  What does that say about the focus of their political ideas and actions?

            #3 On pp 184-185 look at how Federalists acted toward Jefferson sending Monroe to France to help Livingston in his dealings with Napoleon.  How did the deal that Jefferson actually made reflect on the Federalists?

            #4 Look at how the success of Jefferson as president despite their attacks on him from all sides made the Federalis feel (p 186).  These fears and ideas played out with VP Burr (pp 189-191) and influenced the results of the 1804 election.  Even after Jeffeson’s less successful 2^nd term what were the results of the 1808 election? (p. 196-197 – yes, I know this is beyond what you read this week, but I just thought I could use it to underline the point.)

Keep all of these things in mind as we continue reading this chapter.  The term ‘Federalsit’ will become almost as detested as the term ‘Tory’!

Chapter 6 The Jeffersonians

Chapter 6 is a very long and action packed chapter.  For this reason we will be spending 3 weeks on Chapter 6.  Below are your readings and assignments for the next 3 weeks.  The Google Document of these assignments is HERE.   

In the coming days I'll be making blog posts with some explanations and helps of some things in the reading.  If you have questions as you read please talk with one another and as a last resort ask me!
Chapter 6 Assignments

Recitation Project

Dear students,

I was very sorry to not be with you yesterday and will try and figure out how we will review the last half of Chapter 5 together.  I wanted to speak to you now however about your recitation projects - I wanted to use yesterday to go over the requirements and see how you are doing.  Because of my abscence and because of the density of Chapter 6 and the nearness of Thanksgiving Break I have decided to push back this deadline until after Thanksgiving.  We have the time and there is no reason to rush.  I want to give you ample time not only for the memorization, but also some time to practice the presentation of your pieces.  I want this to be something that you have the time to do well and not just something to check of a list.

I will be speaking with you each privately in the next couple of weeks to see how things are going.  I would like an official record of what pieces each of you have chosen.  Could you respond to this post with a comment telling me the name and authorship of the piece you have chosen?

The assignment details for Chapter 6 are forthcoming momentarily, but you should have already looked the chapter over and at least read the summary by now!

Thanks,

Mrs. Amber

Asking the right questions...

I have several goals in teaching this class and one of those goals is in encouraging you to struggle to find the right questions that we as Christians living in America should be asking.  I began the year with that idea when I asked you to read your very first article on American Exceptionalism.

Yesterday during our online class I briefly spoke about my goals for you in the Current Event component of the class.  I'll post a summary of those goals at a later point, but I was surprised when I mentioned the Occupy Wallstreet movement in relation to the First Ammendment and no one had even heard of it.  I hope that you take the time this week to find out what is going on in this movement.  Take a look at their demands HERE.  

Early this morning I watched a documentary film called 'The One Percent'.  (This is available as an Instant Play selection on NetFlix.)  It is not in any way I don't think a part of the Occupy Wallstreet protests - it was released in 2006.  It was made by a grandson of the Johnson and Johnson corporation as he is grappling with being from one of the wealthiest families in our nation and yet he sees the disparity between the wealthy and the poor and realizes that he's a part of that.  I don't know that this film presents any clear answers and I think that's why I like it.  It causes one to ask questions and to struggle with what are the right questions?  There are viewpoints in this film that I clearly disagree with, there are one maybe two viewpoints in this film that I find I do agree with, but that's not the point really.  I like it because it's not propoganda - someone else telling us what we should think - I like it because it's a painful portrayal that puts us face to face with a struggle in our nation and forces us to think about what we believe.  I also like it because of it's relation to a conversation we were having just this week. 

This week we were talking about the struggle that John Adams had in the first congress and what his role in the government was going to be as Vice President.  We talked a bit about why others felt he was making an argument for aristocracy and why America  and Americans were so opposed to the idea of aristocracy.  This film talks about aristocracy, and one of the questions we might ask is, is the idea of aristocracy still a repugnant idea in America?

This film plays into our economic discussions as well.  We will talk more about free markets and more about the differences between capitalism and socialism.  There is a reference in this film to 'Progressivism'.  That is an idea that we will begin next year with - as we look at Roosevelt's 'New Deal'.  I'm still struggling to figure out exactly what it means and what the implications of it are.

If you do watch it (and I hope you will) keep in mind it's POV (point of view) - who it was made by, why it was made, and what do you think he's trying to accomplish.  Do you think he answered any of his own questions - how is it going to change how he lives his life?  There are several men in this film that he could use as role models (sons born into wealthy corporations) - who do you think a good one might be?  Does it change how you view your future at all?  What's the goal of your education?  What's the responsibility of being a Christian in America?

You could look at the drastic contrast between this film and his life and choices with those of this young girl who has written a book that has been on the NY Times Best Seller list for 12 weeks now:

The Bill of Rights

Federal Hall in New York, the country’s first federal capitol, where the Bill of Rights was debated and passed 1789.

You can find a printer friendly version of the Bill of Rights to place in Chapter 5 of your notebooks HERE.

You can read a bit more about them HERE.

The Bill of Rights are housed in the National Archives building in Washington, DC.  You can view a copy online in their Digital Vault HERE.  Just type 'Bill of Rights' into the search box.

There are also a couple of YouTube videos that could be helpful to you.  One is called Mr. Rupert Bill of Rights.  It has some movie clips and clips from comedians and contemporary cartoon shows that are not all of my taste.  That's why I didn't post the clip!  It's not too bad, just fair warning.

The other video is a 2 part series produced by the Freedom Project.  It is very thorough and detailed teaching a little mini class on the Bill of Rights.  Just keep in mind the bias of the organization that produced these videos.  They are a very conservative group that has an online Classical school.  It's just good to know a groups bias even if it's one you share!

Notes for Honors Students Before Tomorrow's Class!

This post is for the Honors Level class meeting online Friday at 3:00:

The following question was this weeks opportunity question: During Washington’s two terms, early signs of sectionalism appeared. What caused these divisions? Do you think they helped set us on a road toward civil war? If so, how?


We will begin class by discussing this question orally.  Afterwards I will go over the new class format and offer some advice on the pace of your reading, etc. in order to get through your assignments in this new class format.  (Basically I will suggest that you complete all your reading and assignments before Tuesday's class just like before - but just table our discussion of them until Friday.  Friday morning you can look over them again before class.) 

I have been thinking about how to conduct our opportunities in this new format.  I think that we will do them orally.  We will each pick a question to answer/teach to the rest of the class and then we will give each other feedback and discuss the questions.  (You should still try and answer all the questions before class so that you can comment on your peers answers!)  After class is over you will prepare a written answer and turn it in to me the next class.  We'll at least try it this way a couple of times to see how it goes!

We will not have our economics lesson this week, I will reschedule that. I feel like since we did not cover the Bill of Rights in class that we should go over that in more detail instead.  I will post a link to the first 10 ammendments on the blog for you to print in the morning.

We will also talk about Bartram and look back over some other PSH readings that we haven't discussed so make sure you have your PSH handy.

If I can fit it in we will also have an introductory lesson on how to examine a historical document. If we don't fit that in, there will be plenty more opportunities in the next two years!

If you can, look up the definitions of those different forms of government before we meet!

I'll 'see' and 'hear' you tomorrow!

Mrs. Amber

Notes to Clarify the Grading of Week 7's Opportunity (The John Jay Opportunity)

I wanted to clear up a couple of questions about Week 7’s opportunity. First, I greatly enjoyed reading your letters, there were very creative. I wanted to ensure you that I did not use your letters to withhold any points from your score. On the contrary, if you demonstrated to me knowledge of or understanding of this situation which was more clear in your letter than in your opportunity question I gave you additional credit on your score. I did not for anyone take points away based on your letters!

You may have noticed my shorthand notes in how I scored this week’s opportunity and wondered what in the world I meant by it! I was looking for four main points in your answer (described briefly below) and I awarded/withheld points of your score based on how well you addressed each area:

I. The first item I was looking for in your answer was a concise description of what the situation was – John Jay was the Secretary of State. Congress had given him the power to negotiate a treaty with Spain that was supposed to secure the navigation rights of the Mississippi River and the use of the port of New Orleans. John Jay was not able to secure such a treaty – Spain did not recognize our right to use the Mississippi or the port, we were in debt to them after our revolution and basically we had no bargaining power. Some of you went on to describe the second congressional vote that gave John Jay power to make a treaty that did not include these access/navigation rights.

II. The second important piece of information that I wanted to see in your answer was that you put the situation in context. You gave me some indication of when it occurred – just after the revolution. Even better if you described to me how the Treaty of Paris ensured Spain’s territory in Louisiana and further west and that it granted to Spain an extension of the panhandle of Florida cutting off any access to ports on our southern border. Another important piece of information was that there were people already beginning to move west into other territories and if they were not able to use the Mississippi they were essentially cut off from the rest of the states.

III. The third component of your answer that I was looking for was an understanding of the differing view points and interests of the northern and southern states as regards this treaty. The northern states were in dire economic straits after the war. England was blockading the coast and tightly controlling their trade and intimidating them by keeping soldiers in forts in the North West territory. (They had reasons for doing this, remember!) The Southern states wanted to have their own access to ports and harbors to take their crops to markets without depending on the ports and harbors of the northern states. For the more southern states this was a quicker more direct and efficient route. I was looking for you to tell me that southern states were agricultural based and the population was more spread out. Northern states were more merchant oriented, more dependent on fishing and trade for their economies.

IV. The fourth component I hoped to see in your answer was some indication of the disunion that occurred over this issue and what the cause/effects of this were. One area of concern the northerners had was the growing population in the western territories. If these territories became states would they upset the balance of free and slave states? The southern states were upset because the second vote that granted to Jay the power to make this second treaty they viewed as illegal because it did not meat a 2/3rds majority vote. A consequence of this was that they were very reluctant to ratify the constitution because they did not trust a government that had a power superior to that of the states themselves that seemed to overlook their interests. They saw it as larger states overpowering smaller states (population wise).

Here are the opportunity questions for Chapter 5.  I suggest you look over them all now before your reading.  I have also suggested that you divide them up - each taking two or three and then swapping answers and giving feedback on answers. 

If you prefer Google Documents the link is HERE. 

Chapter 5 the New Republic

Chapter 5

Here are your assignments for the next two classes.  This gets us through Chapter 5!  You will notice there is  a format change because of the adjustment I have made in the class.  I have divided the assignments between the Tuesday class (which are for everyone) and the Honors/AP Prep portion of the class which meets separately.

Chapter 5 Assignments

If you prefer using Google Documents the document is HERE.

You should still prepare for your reading and study in the same way as before - just not all of you will be doing the opportunity questions:

#1  Read over the chapter summary and flip through the chapter looking at what sections it is divided into.
#2  Read over and or listen to the summary available on the Online Roadmap
#3  Read with a pencil in hand to mark as you go (index card for vocab)
#4  Look over the topics we will discuss in class and take note of them even during your first reading
#5  Do the first reading - reading for understanding (some of you are using the audio for this reading, just remember to pause it).  Make sure to break your reading into 'bytes', do some form of narration/retelling, and take breaks.  You should be able to complete the reading in two days - don't scream through it all at once!
#6  Build your timeline and lists of important people (make sure you note something about them) in your notebooks
#7  Work through the content using the class topics and opportunity questions.  Go back to sections you marked that you didn't understand and look for help if needed.  Make sure that you can talk/write about each of these topics/questions.

For the Honors/AP Prep class I'm giving you all the opportunity questions at once - use both weeks to go through them.  Our first week's opportunity will be the one on Washington and sectionalism.  The second weeks opportunity is your choice - you choose which of the remaining questions you want to answer.  Spend more time on that question, but do try and spend some time with each of them! 

Recitation Project Requirements

You should be ready for your recitation on November 1st.  (The original due date was the 25th of October, but since we now have fewer students I can allow some extra time for this assignment.)

#1  Your piece should be pre-approved by me to make sure it fits the requirements
#2  Your must memorize your piece (no helps or notes)
#3  Your piece should be no shorter than 1 minute to recite
#4  Your piece must be related to this class in some fashion - either written by an author who lived during the time period of our book, or a speech given or a document written during this time period, or have some other connection.
#5  You must introduce your piece (tell about it and where it came from and what the connection to US History is if it has one).
#6  It is ok to recite only a portion of a long piece - just be mindful and thoughtful in your editing and make sure you inform us that it is edited.
#7  It is ok to perform a piece of music if anyone is so inclined!

For example, in your text when Bennett tells of Nathaniel Hale's execution he refers to Hale's speech and his reference to a quote from Cicero (a Roman), "Give me liberty, or give me death."  You could take this event and do a couple of things.  One, you could look up the rest of Hale's speech and recite it, or you could look up the rest of Cicero's speech fore recitation since it's obvious that Hale knew Cicero.  It is ok to memorize Cicero even though he's Roman, because of the Hale connection - you just have to tell us what that connection is.  Make sense?

Some Recitation Helps

Many of you have asked for some help in picking your recitation pieces.  I thought I would start first with some inspirational help - a scene from one of my favorite movies, The Dead Poets Society starring Robin Williams:

I know that some of you are choosing a poem for your piece, and this movie is full of wonderful recitations by Williams and his students.  It is rated PG, but I think that is a  very liberal rating not only because of some sexual references but also because of  the circumstances surrounding the death of one of the students.  Please speak with  your parents before watching this film. 

If your recitation interests tend toward more of a literary interest - poetry or fiction - I have a website that you may find very helpful.  It's a page put together by a literature professor at Washington State University.  You can find a list of American Authors and a list of American Literary movments, but most helpful to you may be the timeline.  That way you can pinpoint poets or authors within a particular time period that may be of interest to you (or check to make sure that your author/poet wrote in the timeperiod of this first section of our class).  Take a look at it HERE and you may want to bookmark it - it could be helpful in your English/Lit classes, too!  Your recitation doesn't have to be a poem - it can also be a selection from a piece of fiction!

If your interests tend more toward the political or military interests you may be most interested in reciting a speech (or portion of a speech).  I have found two helpful resources (in addition to your text):

Biblical Patriot's Important and Historical Speeches (these are only of American Interest, but be careful of the dates!)

Wikipedia's List of Speeches (this is a very comprehensive list, so not all of them are appropriate for this assignment)

Your text is actually a good resourece, too.  It is full of quotes of speeches, famous documents, and poems which are all appropriate for this assignment.  They are easy to spot because they are either indented to set them apart from the rest of the text or they are in italics.  Also check those footnotes for more ideas!

I also found a very good resource for helping your with the presentation portion of the assignment.  It's a website called Poetry Out Loud.  Look at their tip page HERE.  Take a few minutes to listen to listen to some of the student recitation videos.  Poetry Out Loud is actually a national competition that encourages youth in memorizing and reciting poetry!

Another post this afternoon will clearly and simply lay out the requirements for this assignment...